Officer #4 Next, we have the digitally recorded, then transcribed, interview of Officer #4 {143-185}. The interview was conducted on January 29, 2016.
Now, we have been told that this was a felony arrest stop, the purpose being to arrest those individuals that were considered the leaders of the Malheur NWR occupation. However, the absence of a warrant brings into question the justification of the stop, as explained in HYPERLINK "http://outpost-of-freedom.com/blog/?p=1328"Ambush. However, Officer #4
appears to have been paying attention. When the following occurred {149}:
DCSO 4: Ok. So, who-who was in charge of the operation? Who's running the show?
OFFICER 4: So, basically, it, uh, it was FBI's, uh, information, we were just basically there to kind of, uh, assist with helpin' 'em, how it was planned and how, uh, we were gonna be, uh, conducting, and determine who the traffic stop on, uh, then take those people into custody. An had info-basically knowledge that they had, um, an active, uh, arrest warrant for 'em.
DCSO 4: -Um-hum-
OFFICER 4: -not warrant, but uh, information that they could be detained.
So, he realizes that there was no arrest warrant, that they "could be detained". Darn, everybody else, even the FBI spokesman, has said that the stop was to arrest, not to detain. But, this fits with the absence of a Criminal Complaint and Arrest Warrants, until after LaVoy was murdered.
Here, Officer #4 {180-182} describes as he arrives at the shooting scene.
Of course, he also takes the Officer Safety routine, and even suggests that if could have gotten the safety off on his rifle, we would have shot, too.
He's crossin' over the centerline an takin' like, wantin' the the corners wide, uh then, obviously, I know the roadblock is up-up ahead of us, uh, cause they had that information that, um, there-he had now left and was going to be traveling towards them, um, the,. I didn't know the exact location of the roadblock, uh, but It was kinda set up around a cor-a little bit of a corner and then a straight stretch after that.
So, I was following behind still, um, tryin' ta catch up him, come around the, uh, kinda of a corner and at that point I could see, uh, a brief period of brake lights on LaVoy's pickup and then, uh, the brake lights go off an It appeared that the vehicle accelerated at that point and um, drove-it almost initially looked like it was gonna take and just plow directly into all the vehicles and instead it looked like it made a last second decision to kinda go, uh, left and barely missed the spike strips that were-that were put out... in front of all the vehicles, um, barely misses that, tries going around to the left to go through the deep snow an looked like he was tryin' to drive basically around, uh, the roadblock set up there and, uh, truck become stuck in the snow, right after that, I can-I can see all-all this happen but I'm still, uh, a ways behind at this point.
Um, I see the spikes up ahead where it's happenin'. Soon as the vehicle comes to a stop, the driver's door comes open and about that point I'm getting-I could see LaVoy comin' out at the same time, I see movement kinda back up-as I'm watchin' him, I could see movement back up and to the left of, um, LaVoy, that, and, uh, could see there was another OSP person back up that-uh, behind him near a tree.
And, so by this time, I stopped near the spike strips an get out an basically, uh, get my gun up through the, uh, between the door and the A pillar of the-of the truck, tryin' ta come up on a sights, still see what's goin' on, I could see another OSP person moving to my left, kinda away from Finicum an Finicum seems to be more or less, uh, kinda travelin' kinda at an angle toward that, uh, OSP person who was back up to the left, an-and initially when Finicum comes out, he's got his hands raised in the air but by this time, ya know, I was outta the vehicle and I can actually hear what's goin' on and I can hear him just say ta #' shoot him, is what I recall um, so. eventually, uh, by the time I get my gun out and kinda up in that direction tryin' ta-kinda quickly observe what's goin' or if people are gonna come out, uh, his hands come down lower and basically, um, looks like he kinda makes a-a real quick um, I'm not sure if he kinda stumbled an tried to catch himself or what, but, uh, I could see what I recall, at least two times, uh, clearly that he made an like initial grab over to, uh looked like, like he-he reachin' for a gun.
Like I said, I know that he carries a, uh, a shoulder holstered pistol, um, on him. So, makes a initial grab, almost kinda looks like he didn't-didn't quite get it inside of his coat at that point and then almost reached up with uh, his, uh, second hand and was actually was able to get ahold of his coat and what I recall, uh, hold his coat and actually almost kinda get it open and then you could see him clearly reach inside, ya know-that point, I was tryin'-the first initial grab, uh, that he-he made to go inside, I believe he was going for his gun.
uh, and the gun I was actually shooting has a little bit longer safety on it to get to, um, per our policy is, ya know, ya have to be, uh, ya know, basically on on safety until you've made that decision to shoot. At that point, I made the decision to shoot and was reaching out to get my safety off, uh, an actually had to roll my hand around, it takes a little bit longer to actually get to it. uh, get my safety off, comin' back up onto, ya know, getting' back into target and see him then, like-like I say, clearly reach in-inside and, I-I believed he was going for his gun at that point, and that's when I heard, uh, a couple shots go off. I don't know exactly how many, but, I-I mean it was at least a couple. um, so once the shots go off, I basically kinda gettin' on my trigger at that point, and but it-by then you could see that he'd been hit and went down pretty quick.
So that's when I decided not ta-not shoot, um, stayed there on him fer a little bit, I mean, obviously everything seems like it happens super super fast, but um, ya know, once I could tell he was-he was actually down, uh, so from that point, I saw um. ya know the-the OSP guy that was up off to the left of Finicum, they were in very close proximity to each other and that was the other reason I basically made that decision to shoot just because-just the close proximity to, uh, the other OSP officer that was there, uh, I felt that basically he was in danger, uh, and, so, after he went down, um, after a minute or so, nobody had else had came out of the-the vehicle, um, I know other people scrabblin' around all over the place.
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Simply for an understanding of the OSP opinion of FBI, I include some Q&A {164-165} from the interview -- about the mysterious FBI agents:
DCSO 4: and how about the FBI guy that was in your rig?
OFFICER 4: From what I recall he went by, ya know what? I might be thinkin' of a different person. From what I recall, his name is Officer 13. I'm not 100%
DCSO 4: -maybe-maybe Officer 13?
OFFICER 4: Maybe Officer 13.
DCSO 4: Ok. Alright since I've been on this I'm figurin' out these guys are mysterious.
OFFICER 4: (chuckles), yeah.Officer #7
Next to be interviewed is Officer #7 {186-212}. The top of the forms has a date of January 26, and the bottom, February 18. However, the date of the interview is not given, only that the interview was conducted "At approximately 2143 hours" {187}.
Officer #7 describes his arrival at the scene of the shooting. LaVoy is already "down hard" {201-202}.
DCSO 4: Ok, so, when you got there to this gray vehicle, you recall, um, any gunshots or less lethal being fired or commands being given, anything like that?
OFFICER 7: I heard-I heard a lot of um, I didn't hear any gunshots, um, there was multiple people, um, yelling commands at the truck, I can't tell you who was yelling what though.
DCSO 4: Ok.
OFFICER 7: Uh. And as far as, um, less lethal, I, I believe when I got there, the right front passenger window, um, was broken and I assumed by one of the other member's 40mms.
DCSO 4: Ok so-so what happened next?
OFFICER 7: Uh, I recall seeing, uh, an Individual that I recognized as being Mr. Finicum, um, he was lying, um, in the snow, uh, generally to the rear of his vehicle uh I recall uh, Officer 6 arriving shortly thereafter and I recall Officer 6 asking one of the FBI agents uh, something to the effect of what's the status, or something to that effect, referring ta Mr. Finicum, an I recall the FBI agent stating something to effect of he's down hard, which we all-er I interpreted as he had been shot.
DCSO 4: Ok. So what-what happened next?
OFFICER 7: Uh, there was, um, I-I was being told-I-an I don't-I can't recall by who, one of-I believe-one of the agents near me, um there was still people in the vehicle not coming out.
DCSO 4: Um-hum.
OFFICER 7: Um. One of the agents. I don't recall the verbiage he used, but he asked me ta put, um, 40mm. uh, less lethal rounds, um, into, the vehicle I uh, made eye contact with Officer 6, um, and, uh verbally-I don't remember what words exactly I used or he used but I, um, got verbal confirmation from him that I was ok to do that.
DCSO 4: Ok.
OFFICER 7: Um, and I then, uh, targeted the the area where the dash meets the front windshield and I believe I fired six rounds into the dash slash windshield area through the broken right front window.
DCSO 4: Ok. Is that the right front passenger window?
OFFICER 7: Correct.
DCSO 4: Ok. Now is that-are all those 40mm?
OFFICER 7: Yes.
DCSO 4: You remember what-what kind of less lethal-what kind of munition it is?
OFFICER 7: Yeah, those, um, were 40mm, um, they're, uh, direct fire non-lethal rounds, these particular ones were filled, um, with, uh, OC powder.
DCSO 4: And what do those-look like?-Can you describe those rounds?
OFFICER 7: Uh, yeah, they-they have a-an aluminum casing, um, uh, there's a kind of a black, it-um, the collar area an then these particular rounds the um the cartridge itself and the-the tip are all painted orange.
DCSO 4: Do-do you recall firing any of the-I guess the blue sponge rounds-impact rounds at all?
OFFICER 7: I-initially, I did not.
DCSO 4: Ok.
OFFICER 7: Uh I may have, um, fired blue-we call 'em blue tips, um, same cartridge but no OC powder, later.
DCSO 4: Ok.
OFFICER 7: But initially, I, I'm certain the first six were all the orange tips.
DCSO 4: Ok. All the same spot, the dash windshield?
OFFICER 7: -correct
Here, again, we have a fusillade, and the government people can't grasp why the people in the truck don't just get out. However, just to make it worse, shortly thereafter, he says, "There was-there was delay, uh, I believe-I had-I had reloaded, I didn't, uh, ejected the empty casings from the multi launcher [A 40mm launcher that holds 6 rounds], um, I believe I put six more orange tips in, uh, there was a delay, uh, where no one had no one was coming out of the truck, um, I recall putting, uh, firing more rounds into the same location, uh, the front dash slash wind-front window area but I don't recall how many rounds I fired on that second um, deployment."
Gary Hunt was a Professional Land Surveyor. Having been the County Surveyor for Orange County, Florida from 1974 to 1978, he began private practice in 1978 and continued as such until 1993, when events in Waco, Texas caused him to leave his business in pursuit of restoring the Constitution.
In 1989, he began researching, investigating and studying history, law and events where the government was “pointing its guns in the wrong direction”. He began publishing a patriot newspaper, “Outpost of Freedom”, in February 1993.
Since that time, he has investigated numerous occurrences, including, Waco, the Murder of Michael Hill, Ohio Militia Chaplain, Oklahoma City Bombing, and other events. He has attended the sites to investigate the events, and has reported on his investigations.
He has continued to report on his findings on the Internet, as well as write articles about other current events; about the history of the Revolutionary era; and the founding documents.
